AZ Barbeque.com
Smokers, Grills, Pitts & More => BDS & UDS Smokers => Topic started by: azkitch on September 13, 2011, 08:47:14 pm
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Once again, I would like to open for discussion the age old debate about used drums. I was coming home last night, and I saw a black drum on a trailer full of crap. I stopped and asked, the kid at the house made a call, and it was OK to snag the drum. The lid's been cut out, and the inside is unlined and slightly rusty, with the original gold tone showing through. The label, however, is intact, and the drum contained Chevron Anti-Freeze. Between washing it out and burning it out, I can't for the life of me figure how it might be dangerous. Metal is not at all porous, and once I've hosed it and filled it with all the mesquite I can get old of and had a bonfire, I can't justify worry.
Are there any chemists out there who can shed light one way or the other?
So was that a fitting four thousandth post? See, if you guys didn't have enough money for meat and charcoal, and a wife and daughter that didn't like BBQ (Unless someone else cooks it!) y'all could sit here and theorize about smoking and post lots too!
If you had a penny for your thoughts you would have 40 bucks!
:D
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I have taken a few 10K gallon fuel tanks from service station upgrades to use for our livestock water storage. We climbed in and scrubbed with detergent and borax and even tried burning a few before the wash but could never get rid of the odor. A couple that we stored for a couple years after washing are in use today for our remote water storage and the tests on the water does not show anything bad. Maybe it is in my head but I still get a slight hint of petro when I am close to them.
Back to your tank, I would think you could burn and scrub it clean with some elbow grease but there are a lot of cheap barrels which have only held food grade products available which would be my choice. If you look hard enough some are free if you remove them! I used to get them from Pepsi in Flagstaff and they were happy to get rid of them but now they use plastic. Congrats on your posting milestone, If you had a penny for your thoughts you would have 40 bucks!
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Dave, Sterling and I have been using antifreeze drums for 2 or 3 years now, with NO problems. He works for a school district, in the transportation departmen, and as such he has access to used drums with antifreeze or oil in them.
We wash them out with Dawn, and do a SERIOUS burn-out. He's done over 30, and I've got my second one. No issues, you can't even smell anything.
Oh, antifreeze (both kinds) break down at about 400 degrees F.
steve
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Just my 2 cents- metal is porous!!!!
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I get my drums brand new at southwest container. The paint holds up well to smoking temperatures and there is no liner to scrape out or anything to have to burn. Complete with a lid and ring for around 55 dollars, its well worth it if you live in the Phoenix or Tucson area.
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and have $55...
I would if I could, but I can't so I won't. Not to mention that DW would have my head!
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True Dave, and congrats on the 4000th post. YOU THE MAN!
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Congrats Dave......4000 POSTS........WOW Thats alot of talking ;D
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Well, Kitch asked for a chemist, here I am. :angel:
Propylene Glycol is the main chemical in most new antifreeze and here is the scoop from Wikipedia (there are no other Academic types around, right?)
HumansThe acute oral toxicity of propylene glycol is very low, and large quantities are required to cause perceptible health damage in humans; propylene glycol is metabolized in the human body into pyruvic acid (a normal part of the glucose-metabolism process, readily converted to energy), acetic acid (handled by ethanol-metabolism), lactic acid (a normal acid generally abundant during digestion),[11] and propionaldehyde.[12][13] Serious toxicity generally occurs only at plasma concentrations over 1 g/L, which requires extremely high intake over a relatively short period of time.[14] It would be nearly impossible to reach toxic levels by consuming foods or supplements, which contain at most 1 g/kg of PG. Cases of propylene glycol poisoning are usually related to either inappropriate intravenous administration or accidental ingestion of large quantities by children
Here is the link if anyone wants to check out the references: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Propylene_glycol
That being said, I would not recommend drinking it.
Old antifreeze was made using a similar compound, ethylene glycol. It can become toxic if you drink enough of it.
ToxicityMain article: ethylene glycol poisoning
Ethylene glycol is moderately toxic with an oral LDLO = 786 mg/kg for humans.[6] The major danger is due to its sweet taste. Because of that, children and animals are more inclined to consume large quantities of it than of other poisons. Upon ingestion, ethylene glycol is oxidized to glycolic acid which is, in turn, oxidized to oxalic acid, which is toxic. It and its toxic byproducts first affect the central nervous system, then the heart, and finally the kidneys. Ingestion of sufficient amounts can be fatal if untreated.[7]
Link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethylene_glycol
I would feel safe eating from a UDS made using a drum that used to hold antifreeze. I would be a little more concerned about oil, what with all the polycyclic aromatic hydrocarbons (PAH's), but those burn. I am pretty sure the glycols burn too. They are alcohols. (just not the fun kind like ethanol :police:)A good burn or two should do it to the point that anything leaching out of the metal will be in the part per trillion range.
Sterling, got any extra drums? A UDS is in my future plans after I finish up my current project...a mini WSM type smoker using a tabletop grill and an Aluminum tamale pot. Should have that cooking a fattie this weekend. I will try to take pictures.
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I forgot to mention... 8) Check out the chemical composition of smoke and leachates from metal become the least of your worries. >:D
http://burningissues.org/table2.htm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smoke
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Damn Doug...I have no idea what you just wrote. My head is spinning and I need a beer!
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Blame Kitch, he wanted a chemist. ??? I am sitting here with my rum and coke. The good alcohol.
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I forgot to mention... 8) Check out the chemical composition of smoke and leachates from metal become the least of your worries. >:D
http://burningissues.org/table2.htm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smoke
OK, I followed the Wikipedia link, and got distracted. (Ooh, SQUIRREL!!) Ended up at a link about "Magic Smoke."
THANKS! Doug!! :D
Seriously Doug, PM Sterling here. He gets drums in all the time, and likes to help other Smokers out. Goes by the moniker "Skouson" here. (Our last name, and my handle is close.)
steve
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Blame Kitch, he wanted a chemist. ??? I am sitting here with my rum and coke. The good alcohol.
Is there a "bad" ethanol?
Didn't think so.
WildCat, I'm drinking your beer. Well, I was, 3 hours ago. Now I'm on my #3 (or so!) :D
steve
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Great responses, guys. I appreciate it. Now on with the cleaning and burning. But I've got to finger out a lid for the thing...
And Maker's Mark is my current favorite ethanol. I've been told by friend to try Buffalo Trace. I can't find it in smaller sizes yet...
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Dave, Weber kettle lid.
Find a used kettle off of CL.
steve
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Yes, I'm gonna try mine on it, but it doesn't fit my other UDS...I'm anticipating... I'm also going to try my current UDS' lid...
How d'ya adjust the fit on them thangs, anyway!!? My UDS lid doesn't quite fit. I'm not sure if the barrel isn't round any longer, or if the lid is a fraction too small. I was trying to bend the channel of the lid outward, and it seemed to fit a bit better...
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flip it and see if the weber lid fits the bottom. mine did, so i cut the bottom open and used the weber lid with the drum upside down.
Something must be out of wack on your drum all my lids fit fine, yours should be dentical to mine.
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I was trying to bend the channel of the lid outward, and it seemed to fit a bit better...
That is what I did. Yes, it will crack the baked-on finish. Wear safety glasses! I just used a crescent wrench all around the lid.
Sterling is cutting up the kettle, cutting a ring off the top 2 or 3 inches, dropping it in the drum, and sticking it in place with some hi-temp silicone sealer. He's never had a ring move, either.
steve
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Dave,
If you want to go the bottom-rim-of-the-Weber-Kettle route, (which I highly recommend because you don't have to fung up the kettle lid) I've got about 5 extra kettle bottoms just sitting in the shop gathering dust and my wife's wrath. If you want one, its yours. You just have to come and get it.
Send me a PM.
Sterling
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I get my drums brand new at southwest container. The paint holds up well to smoking temperatures and there is no liner to scrape out or anything to have to burn. Complete with a lid and ring for around 55 dollars, its well worth it if you live in the Phoenix or Tucson area.
Where is that place at I want to build a UDS ASAP !
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Where is that place at I want to build a UDS ASAP !
Southwest Container
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Great responses, guys. I appreciate it. Now on with the cleaning and burning. But I've got to finger out a lid for the thing...
And Maker's Mark is my current favorite ethanol. I've been told by friend to try Buffalo Trace. I can't find it in smaller sizes yet...
Buffalo Trace can be found at Total Wine. One of my favorites.
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Buffalo Trace is tasty indeed, as is Maker's Mark. I love the selection of bourbons at Total Wine. Before the days of only allowing bottles of liquid holding 3 ounces or less on flights, I used to bring home bottles of bourbon unavailable here, like Fighting Cock, JD green label and Rebel Yell. Same thing with Brazilian cachaca. Now you can get both at Total Wine and Bevmo.
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Hey, Kitch. Here's the drink for you. (when someone else is buying) ;)
http://news.blogs.cnn.com/2011/09/20/bottle-of-whisky-sells-for-200000/?hpt=hp_c2
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Here are some Drums I saw on C/L pretty reasonable.
http://phoenix.craigslist.org/wvl/grd/2606366368.html
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OK guys, a "barrel" is a unit of measure. 33 gallons.
A typical beer keg, is a 1/2 barrel keg, or 16.5 gallons.
A drum can be a barrel sized drum. (When we were kids, our father had 2 of them in the garage. Held 66 gallons of dry wheat, in the 2 of them)
A "drum" is what we have here. Specifically, 55 gallon drums.
(And yes, before some OLD mechanic says it, a barrel is also one of the throats on a carburetor. Newer mechanics wouldn't even know what a carb is!) :D
steve
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Steve, I stand corrected and better informed, thank you!
A barrel is a hollow cylindrical container, traditionally made of vertical wooden staves and bound by wooden or metal hoops. Barrels often have a convex shape, bulging at the middle. This constant bulge makes it easier to roll a well-built wooden barrel on its side, changing directions with little friction. The barrel became a standard size of measure referring to a set capacity or weight of a given commodity.
A beer barrel had originally a capacity of 36 US gallons (140 L)
An ale barrel has capacity of 32 US gallons (120 L).
Basic Wine barrel is 31.5 US gallons (119 L), Bordeaux type 59.4 US gallons (225 L), Cognac type" 79.2 US gallons (300 L).
Oil has not actually been shipped in barrels since the introduction of oil tankers, but the 42-US- gallon size barrel is still used as a unit for measurement, pricing, and in tax and regulatory codes.
Barrel of crude oil or other petroleum product is 42 US gallons (34.9723 imp gal; 158.9873 L).
Barrels for chemicals and food is 55 US gallons (46 imp gal; 208 L).
A Barrel is also an important part of a gun! ???
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Could someone post the container company information (address phone number). I tried to locate them by the name listed, however could only find SunWest Container in Phoenix.
I love the site, thanks.
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My bad Bill....it is Sunwest not Southwest.
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Thanks Dan
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I've got a brisket on a UDS built from one of Sterling's old antifreeze drums. I cleaned it with ammonia and scalding water before doing an unseasoned burn, really hot too, it pegged my thermometers and then a burn with the smoker seasoned with lard rendered from pig fat. I work with all kinds of chemicals and don't have any fear of glycol leaching from the steal or anything else. Watch out for old ladies behind the wheels of Fords though. I almost got taken out last week when a woman drove her car up to the counter of a locksmith who I happened to be paying at the time of her arrival. By the way, it wasn't a drive through kind of business before she go there.
Zor