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What weekend in November would work the best for this event?

November 7th - 8th
November 14th - 15th
November 21st - 22nd
November 28th - 29th

November 2008 Arizona State Championship Cook-off

Discussion started on

Jaybird

I agree with Vince. Cookers put a lot of money out for contests and I think we deserve the best possible judging pool we can have. I do think the organizers should look into sanctioning ( preferrably KCBS) as many of the contests as possible. We are getting more and more Arizona teams into the sport which is great. A state championship is a serious matter to us and I think it should coinside with 'serious' sanctioning and judging.

It was great for Mike and Aaron to get the State Championship proclamations and I thank them for that. Along with Vince and some others I agree we should use it wisely and not loosely.
#16 - April 28, 2008, 12:35:47 pm

DivaHerself

  • Karma: 0
I would echo the preference for KCBS sanctioning.  From the cooking team's perspective, the lure of a State Championship is in large part due to it being a draw for the Jack.  IBCA-style cooking doesn't do much to prepare us for being competitive there, so KCBS style has come to be our primary focus.
#17 - April 28, 2008, 01:48:48 pm
Things you ONLY hear at a BBQ competition:
BBQCzar: "Hey, your butt's looking really good!"
VQ: "Thanks, I've been working on it."

Mike (AZBarbeque)

  • Karma: 171
So, along that line, you would rather have a lesser prize fund and KCBS Sanctioning then a heftier prize fund and AZBarbeque Sanctioning?

From my experience at the two events we have sanctioned this year, I have not seen a difference in judging.  Heck, most of the judges were KCBS judges anyway.

For us to have KCBS out at an event costs a minimum of $3500.  If we just have a $5000 prize fund for the event, that now cuts it down to just $1500.  Seems like a better use of the money to me would be going to the competitors, but that's just me.  We will try to accomodate whatever the majority want.
#18 - April 28, 2008, 02:29:32 pm
Michael J. Reimann
Realtor - Clients First Realty (Real Job) - www.TheReimannWay.com
Owner/President - AZBarbeque - #1 BBQ Club in Arizona
Owner/Pitmaster - AZBarbeque Catering - www.AZBarbequeCatering.com

If God wanted us to be Vegetarians, why did he make animals out of meat??

BBQCZAR

  • Karma: -7
I guess the determining factor then for KCBS sanctioned VS non- KCBS sanctioned is how much money is in the prize pool.I would say if the prize pool is 5K and under than yes,to me makes no sense to sanction when all the money will be used for sanction fee's.Unless the teams are charged $500 entery fee that goes towards prize pool,but I don't think that would go over very well either.Maybe see if more sponsors could be lined up between now and the events ??
#19 - April 28, 2008, 03:49:55 pm
www.thebbqbullies.com
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BBQ Bullies competition barbeque team

Mike (AZBarbeque)

  • Karma: 171
I think that will be the determining factor.

Right now,  our prize pool for Pulte is $5000 from Pulte and we are aggressively seeking another $5000 from sponsors.  We want to keep the entrance fees low so that we can make it affordable to lots of teams.  We are thinking $200 - $250 including Electric & Ice.

Our hope is to have $10,000 prize fund State Championship event.  If we get sponsor above that, then we certainly would look at KCBS Sanctioning as we really enjoyed having them last year at the event.  I will talk with Merl more about this at the Stagecoach event this weekend and see what his thoughts, ideas & suggestions are as well.

As a Competitor myself, I would rather be at an event with more Prize money paying deeper into the field than less prize money and sanctioning.  Especially seeing as we will be an "Official" State Championship event.  But that's just me.

Let's hear everyone else's thoughts...  ;)  Wait a minute, we are almost sounding like a democracy over here...  I thought we were a dictatorship... ;D  :o
#20 - April 28, 2008, 03:58:25 pm
Michael J. Reimann
Realtor - Clients First Realty (Real Job) - www.TheReimannWay.com
Owner/President - AZBarbeque - #1 BBQ Club in Arizona
Owner/Pitmaster - AZBarbeque Catering - www.AZBarbequeCatering.com

If God wanted us to be Vegetarians, why did he make animals out of meat??

DivaHerself

  • Karma: 0
I think the locals just proved that a certain number of teams would come out for a low-money contest that was a shot for a draw.  Sanctioning would only sweeten the deal.
#21 - April 28, 2008, 04:15:55 pm
Things you ONLY hear at a BBQ competition:
BBQCzar: "Hey, your butt's looking really good!"
VQ: "Thanks, I've been working on it."

Jaybird

Well, I do understand what you're sayin Mike. It is a catch-22. If you stay at $5000 prize money with no sanctioning you probably will not draw any teams from out of state. If that's the case we'll have the same 15 Arizona teams beatin on each other every contest. If you get $10,000 and sanctioning you could get 30 plus teams (gas prices determining) and judges coming from out of state. Don't know if we have enough Arizona judges alone for that big of a contest.

I think some people were gung ho for Saddle Sore after it became a state championship. I signed up before anyone had a clue it was going to be one. Afterwards I think people are having second thoughts about it. Probably for several different reasons. Just guessing, but I just get that edgy feeling.  :(
#22 - April 28, 2008, 04:39:45 pm

Mike (AZBarbeque)

  • Karma: 171
Jay, I understand your concerns, but from my experiences and from what I've heard, our AZBarbeque Sanctioned events are much different than the Association Sanctioned events.  I feel ours really do more closely follow the KCBS competitions.

We do want to draw Teams from out of state, and I think with an "Official" State Championship, $10,000 prize fund and still a chance for a Jack Draw, we would do that whereas with just a $3000 - $5000 prize fund and KCBS sanction, I don't think we would.  Most teams that travel want a larger prize fund for a chance to win the cost of their expenses.  This is just from my experience and talking with the teams.

Great conversation though, I like that we have so much quality input.  Keep it going...
#23 - April 28, 2008, 04:48:39 pm
Michael J. Reimann
Realtor - Clients First Realty (Real Job) - www.TheReimannWay.com
Owner/President - AZBarbeque - #1 BBQ Club in Arizona
Owner/Pitmaster - AZBarbeque Catering - www.AZBarbequeCatering.com

If God wanted us to be Vegetarians, why did he make animals out of meat??

force

  • Karma: 1
I am with Mike on this............ more money for the competitors........and not outrageous fees to enter...... I also thought in addition to the sanctioning...... you have to pay for the judges flight and stay....... or am I wrong on that......

The economy right now is dictating many things......... seems to me if you want teams from other states........... you would want a different title........ like Southwest Champion.......... why would I  live in AZ and go to Calif and win the state championship there........ rather win it here........ and then go to Calif and win the Southwest Championship .... I believe it is important to have at least 3 state championships a year for competitve total......... that would be one every 4 months..... who is to say we couldn't start our own sanctioning and training of judges........ just because there has been two....... there can't be three?  Break out and lead our own path.............
#24 - April 28, 2008, 04:57:51 pm
Huge Fan of Mike (AZBarbeque)... He's My Hero..

desertdog

  • Karma: 1
I also thought in addition to the sanctioning...... you have to pay for the judges flight and stay....... or am I wrong on that......


I'm sure you meant the overseeing KCBS Official(s)....or have I been missing out on a perk??? ;D



#25 - April 28, 2008, 05:22:43 pm
Pitmaster for Ship of Fools, er...Major Woody's BBQ Team
Beer Ambassador -currently doing research in assorted Bavarian Villages

Jaybird

No, you don't pay for judges. They pay their own way. You do pay for the KCBS reps to fly out and lodging.

The Jack only recognizes state championships not regional championships.

You go to other states to win a GC to go to the Jack also. I would rather win it here too. My first trip to the Jack was for a win in California, my second for a win in Utah.

Training of judges and judging will have to resemble KCBS or it will not fly. There is no breaking out in a different direction. You will have no followers. Just the way it is.

Mike, the bottom line is the judging. You have to convince everyone that your judges are for real and you follow KCBS to the letter. That is hard to do. Even KCBS sanctioned contests are questioned about the judges they use. It is hard to train future judges when there are no KCBS contests to attach their training to and no official trainers.
#26 - April 28, 2008, 05:32:16 pm

VisionQuest220

  • Karma: 0
I've read all the posts since my last and I while I understand that there needs to be a balance between cost to put on an event and payouts to teams, Jay said it best when he said that "the bottom line is judging".  When I consider all the time, effort and energy, (not to mention money), that we put into preparing and participating in a competition, it is a slap in the face to us and all the teams when the judging is an afterthought. 

Almost all of the KCBS Certified Barbeque Judges that I have met at the events we have been to take as much pride in what they do as we do as competitors.  Just like us, they are willing to travel, pay for hotels and other expenses just to judge and they do not receive any compensation for their efforts.  They do it because they enjoy doing it and they take is very seriously.

Although the money needs to make sense at an event, that isn't the only consideration, at least not for me.  The truth is that I would rather be at a lower paying contest that was sanctioned and had 100% CBJ than be at a high paying, non-sanctioned, pull 'em off the street at the last minute event.  That events designated as a State Championship could end up being the latter instead of the former is something that should be avoided at all costs. 

As I said earlier, State Championships should be something special not something tagged on to every event just because it can be.  I stand by my earlier statement that a State Championship should be a sanctioned event overseen by a neutral and disinterested third party and judged by experienced and educated judges.  I would rather have fewer contests that had greater prestiege if that was the way it had to be.
#27 - April 28, 2008, 09:37:12 pm
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The All-WSM Championship Barbeque Team
2008 & 2009 CBBQA Team of the Year

force

  • Karma: 1
Well I knew someones flight and stay was paid for....... so to go to Jack.. state champs....... and does it have to have been sanctioned by KC to go to Jack?
#28 - April 28, 2008, 09:41:39 pm
Huge Fan of Mike (AZBarbeque)... He's My Hero..

Mike (AZBarbeque)

  • Karma: 171
Chris, no, it does not need to be sanctioned to be a Jack Qualifier.

From my experiences, not all KCBS events have 100% CBJs either.  I know at each event, we try to get as many CBJ's as we can.  Since November, we now have a larger pool of CBJ's here in Arizona.  I don't ever think that Judging is an afterthought, but it is something we will pay closer attention to in the future.

Playing Devil's Advocate, the odds of most teams going to the Jack or even getting into a position to be in the draw are minimal, so with that in mind, teams would rather see a larger payout of money going deeper into the field so that more of them got a chance to walk and make back some of their money.  Yes, maybe when teams get to a level where they are winning on a regular basic this could change.  Heck, even if most teams were to win GC at an event and get drawn for the Jack, the odds of most of them having the time available or the money to make the trek back to the Jack would be mimimal.

I personally like the idea of having more "Official" State Championship events as in the slight chance I do win GC at one of them, I do get the opportunity to go into the draw.  So, if I am at an event with 15 - 20 teams, my odds are better than at 40 - 50 teams.  I know my team and I have worked very hard for the past 3 years to get more than one "Official" State Championship BBQ Cook-off here in the state and we fully plan on taking advantage of using them.  Not only is it great for you the competitors, but it's also great for our Sponsors to be involved with such a Prestigist designation.

Don't get me wrong, I like having an event sanctioned by the KCBS, but to me, the benefits do not outweigh the costs, and if they do, I just don't see them at this point.  If we have an "Official" State Championship competition offering a $10,000 prize fund with AZBarbeque sanctioning and a simliar "Official" State Championship competition offering a $5000 prize fund but sanctioned by the KCBS, I would be very surprised if the KCBS one had more competitor entries than the AZBarbeque sanctioned one.

Case in point is our first year Lake Pleasant event, we had 52 teams at, then last year, with a bigger prize fund, more local teams and KCBS Sanctioning, we only had 47.
#29 - April 28, 2008, 10:15:30 pm
« Last Edit: April 28, 2008, 10:47:22 pm by Sun Devil BBQ »
Michael J. Reimann
Realtor - Clients First Realty (Real Job) - www.TheReimannWay.com
Owner/President - AZBarbeque - #1 BBQ Club in Arizona
Owner/Pitmaster - AZBarbeque Catering - www.AZBarbequeCatering.com

If God wanted us to be Vegetarians, why did he make animals out of meat??

Jaybird

Mike, will most or all of these contests be in the Phoenix area?
#30 - April 29, 2008, 11:30:18 am

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