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Noob help!!!!!!!!!!

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Crash

  • Karma: 20
I don't own either. Just trying to start something between the two rival camps. I like getting up every two hours with my smoker. :(
We're still up and babysitting ours during comps.  We'll most likely have to continue to go that route until we get a Stoker or a Guru.

Quite honestly, we have never had temp issues at night.  We do occasionally see the temps going down at around 8am or 9 ish on a competition Saturday.  It's a really easy fix.
#16 - October 19, 2009, 09:19:45 pm
I love animals.  They're delicious!
VRM Pit Crew

force

  • Karma: 1
what crash said.... I have both pro q and wsm.... I don't use water.. it has rocks in it..... I will tell you.. the wsm was easier to dial in and more consistent.. however.. I have used the pro q more than the wsm to increase my proficiency and now feel I can do the same job on both..... it just took me longer with the pro q...
#17 - October 19, 2009, 09:23:08 pm
Huge Fan of Mike (AZBarbeque)... He's My Hero..

jmcrig

Crash, my comment about the two cookers was only that I've never seen a Pro Q that I know of. I guess I need to change that. One thing that I do that works with either cooker, when I do my coals, I put a tin can with the top and bottom cut out,(one of the big ones for beans and the like). I place it in the center of the coal grate and pour the unlit charcoal around it. I then pour the lite charcoal in the can, and with a pair of channel locks, pull the can out. Now that was long winded.
#18 - October 19, 2009, 09:43:03 pm

Crash

  • Karma: 20
Crash, my comment about the two cookers was only that I've never seen a Pro Q that I know of. I guess I need to change that. One thing that I do that works with either cooker, when I do my coals, I put a tin can with the top and bottom cut out,(one of the big ones for beans and the like). I place it in the center of the coal grate and pour the unlit charcoal around it. I then pour the lite charcoal in the can, and with a pair of channel locks, pull the can out. Now that was long winded.


This is what a Pro Q Excel 20 looks like with three stackers.  It's about 5 feet tall with a 20" circumference.  Note that the legs are the older legs and not the reinforced legs.  We have never had a problem at all concerning the legs/collapsing smoker.

I like the tin can idea.  May have to try that out someday.
#19 - October 19, 2009, 09:56:57 pm
I love animals.  They're delicious!
VRM Pit Crew

jmcrig

The tin can idea just makes it quicker and easier doing the Minon.
#20 - October 19, 2009, 10:11:18 pm

jmcrig

Here's something I found on the Weber site about firing up the WSM;

http://www.virtualweberbullet.com/fireup1.html

It talks about different variations of the Minon Method.
#21 - October 19, 2009, 10:37:29 pm

c5rulz

  • Karma: 0
I don't use anything in the water pan either.  3/4 bag of Royal Oak Lump lasts around 10 hours for me. 

Question - are you sure the thermometer is accurate?  The one in my lid usually hovers around 200-210 while my Maverick registers 220-230 at grate level. 

Why don't you want to run without water?
I am going to order a maverick et-73 soon.  I checked one of the probe holes with a probe type dial thermometer and it was pretty close to what the temp gage on the Pro Q said.

As to why not running without water......because it's a water pan and I didn't think about it. ::)
#22 - October 20, 2009, 07:48:17 am

c5rulz

  • Karma: 0
Ron - We've got our Pro Q 20's pretty well dialed in at this point.  Here is what we do.

1a)  For a longer cook (butts, brisket) we load up the entire basket almost full to the top with unlit Bluebag K.  We then hollow out the middle as best we can.  There will be unlit K above the top of the basket around the sides of the hollowed-out middle.  We then place a full Weber chimney of lit K coals into the hollowed-out middle.  We then use the chimney to actually mold the shape of the lit and unlit K coals into an even mound (it is kind of an intricate process).  We then add our cooking wood, usually 3-4 chunks depending on size. 

Next we add a foiled water pan and fill it up about 1/3 of the way with the hottest water you can get your hands on.  We use boiling water or if we're feeling lazy we use the hottest tap water we can find.  We let everything settle for about 5-10 minutes and then the butts or briskeys go on.  Temps for us are usually right around the 225-240 mark at the start.  We will then adjust vents accordingly to get to our optimum temp.

1b)  For a mid-range cook time (ribs) we basically do almost the same thing. We will reduce the unlit K coals to about 3/4 of a basket and add about 3/4 lit chimney using the same hollowed-out (MM) method).  We add wood the same way and tend to use less water in the foiled water pan, but still make sure the H2O is hot.  Temps for this cook also mimic the longer cook for us.

1c)  For a fast cook (chx) we will line the bottom of the charcoal basket with unlit.  We then drop a fully lit, overflowing chimney of coals into the basket and spread them around evenly.  We then add our wood and put on a foiled water pan.  We do not add any water for this cook at all.

2)  Of the few times that we have had trouble getting the temps up, we have taken out the water pan, ditched the water in the pan, and returned the pan to the smoker.  This has always allowed the temps to come up, and in some cases higher than we wanted.

I think the key to using water is to use hot water.  I really believe this.  It is really more of a scientific thing than anything else really.  If you use cold water in the pan, the coals (fuel) will need to use more energy to get that water hot....energy that would be better used to cook your food and maintain a consistent temp. 

3)  Lump has always cooked hotter in my opinion.  I dint like using it, because I have too much trouble controlling the temperature spikes.  Some people swear by it because, hey, it works great for them.  I myself have just gotten use to the consistency that the standard Bluebag K offers me. 

I can say one positive thing about lump though.  I have only cooked using the Ono brand of lump once.  It was the first lump that I have used that I have actually really liked.  I didn't use it on purpose, but because it what was given to me to cook a bachelor party.  For that cook, I used one 20 lb bag of Ono for the entire cook and also used the third Excel 20 stacker for the first time.  If I was to ever use the third stacker again for a cook, it would be with the Ono brand of lump.  Good stuff and you can get it from our club sponsor BBQ Island.

4) The lid-mounted thermometer just really isn't going to tell you what's going on temp-wise two levels down.  I can see the pros for it if you are hanging something by the hooks up top, but even that would be sketchy at best.  We like to use the Maverick E-73's at each grate level to get an accurate reading. 

Mark - You had asked about the differences between the Pro Q and the WSM.

1) Pro Q has a hanging bar and meat hooks for a vertical cook.
2) Pro Q has eyelets at each grate level that allows a thermometer to probe the temp at each level.
3) Each Pro Q stacker (section) has handles on each side to allow for easy access.
4) Water pan on the Pro Q is much bigger than the older WSM's (I have no idea how big the newer WSM water pans are)
5) Pro Q has latches that allow you to access one level without having to remove grates.
6) The WSM is much more popular and has won a lot more awards than the Pro Q.

The WSM and the Pro Q are very similar cookers, but the Pro Q definitely has more features.   An overwhelming number of Excel 20 users love the cooker.  I know we enjoy cooking on our Pro Q's much more than on our WSM.  Of all of my contacts with Pro Q users, I have only heard of one person that did not like the product.

Hope that helps.  If you have any other questions, post them up and someone will surely get back to you.

Crash, you are da man!!!!!!!!1  Thanks 

I am going to print this and put in on the wall and call it the gospel according to Crash.   :D 
Thanks again.
#23 - October 20, 2009, 07:52:19 am

c5rulz

  • Karma: 0
I have been thinking about the water in the water pan.  >:D

 I might not know much about BBQing but I do know some physics.  A gram of water takes one cal/gram to heat water from 0 to 100celcius, (boiling point)  Once the water begins to boil it takes 540 cal/gram to convert to steam.
http://www.ask.com/bar?q=energy+in+converting+water+to+steam+&page=1&qsrc=0&ab=0&title=MODERN+ALCHEMIST&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.geocities.com%2FCapeCanaveral%2FHangar%2F9825%2Ficesteam.html&sg=2S8DfD%2BzsLry3bq4mTPIYDg2FCpOO0EUCJ285cnAgOY%3D&tsp=1256050484127
So we can conclude 2 things; 
  1.  As long as there is water in the pan, the temp of pan is 212 F and will greatly cool the exhaust gas from the fire as it passes over the pan.
  2.  Once the water begins to boil, a very large amount of energy is being used to make steam and not heat the interior of the cooker.  If the vessel was pressurized which it is not, that would be another issue.

So maybe an empty pan is the way to go, or just put in something that would act as a heat sink to modulate temp. 
#24 - October 20, 2009, 08:03:06 am

Mike P in Tucson

  • Karma: 7
Quote
So maybe an empty pan is the way to go, or just put in something that would act as a heat sink to modulate temp. 

I have used water and have used sand in my Excel20 and did not notice any material difference, other than having sand in it made it very heavey to lift off to add charcoal after 5-6 hours.  So I have just quit using sand and use water, about half a pan full, hot.  Besides being a heat sink, it helps keep the meat more moist.  But I would probably not use any water if I were just looking to roast something, at hgiher temps, instead of slow smoking.
#25 - October 20, 2009, 09:58:20 am
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jmcrig

Something else to think about; virtually all the smokers/cookers designed to use charcoal as the primary heat source, have some provision for water/steam to be part of the process. So, not being a rocket scientist, but knowing what charcoal is, what's left after the wood has been divested of it's moisture, the water pan was engineered for a purpose.
My two cents
#26 - October 20, 2009, 10:14:25 am

PhxCliff

  • Karma: 0
...the water pan was engineered for a purpose.

My theory on the water pan is that it was designed to mitigate leaky fire boxes that allowed the temp to climb too high in the smoker.  That, and the average guy cooking in his backyard doesn't want to have to monitor airflow and track smoker temperature.  The water pan allows a set-it and forget-it approach, no matter how leaky or wide open you have the firebox vents.

My approach is that if my fire is getting too hot, it must be getting too much air.  Too much air means a leak, so I find and plug/tape/seal the leak and regain control of the air intake.  On the bullet smokers, there are only a handful of places air can get in, and they are all easy to seal.  On my pro-q, i have two of the bottom dampers sealed shut and the doors taped.  I found that without water in the pan, I could easily control and maintain low temps with just one vent.

#27 - October 20, 2009, 12:59:53 pm

bbqphx.com

  • Karma: 9
Good write-up Crash, that will help a lot! 
I will say that the WSM must be a thicker gauge metal or something as it does not need as much charcoal even though the WSM is larger.  Although I've heard reports about the thermometer being a little iffy too, maybe I should test that before I burn my boiled ribs LOL!!
The ProQ definitely has some neat features like the bar across the lid for using bacon hangers, smoking little piggies, sausages, etc.  The modular setup with additional stackers is cool too, I just need to practice more and get to know it better.
#28 - October 20, 2009, 02:43:25 pm
Tracy-Head Chef and Mad Scientist
Weber Ranch Kettle
Two Weber Smokey Mountain 22.5"
Old School Weber Performer circa 1998
FEC100
http://www.bbqphx.com
Find BBQPHX sauce at Hobe Meats, Bull Market and Brooksie's

bbqphx.com

  • Karma: 9
Well, sure enough-I took the lid thermometer apart and boiling water reads 190.  Time for a Maverick I think.
#29 - October 21, 2009, 08:48:21 am
Tracy-Head Chef and Mad Scientist
Weber Ranch Kettle
Two Weber Smokey Mountain 22.5"
Old School Weber Performer circa 1998
FEC100
http://www.bbqphx.com
Find BBQPHX sauce at Hobe Meats, Bull Market and Brooksie's

jmcrig

Don't know if the  Maverick's are available locally, but you can get one out of Kansas City for $45.00 shipped.
#30 - October 21, 2009, 08:58:41 am

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