[rnrbbq]

As much as I can appreciate the results from pellet smokers is anyone else against their use in competition? BBQ is a true American art form and the pellet smoking seems like baking to me more than 'BBQ'. It is harder to compete using traditional methods but...I will continue to do so. On that note...this team feels like greens are a completely ridiculous component to these contests. We feel like we are straying too far from flavor and the actual aesthetics of the meat. I have a feeling we are alone but is anyone else feeling this way?

[BrianL]

Meh...it's not about the cooker or fuel. I've had BBQ cooked on pellets that was nasty. It's not harder to compete on any particular method. Each has its own difficulties and you still deal with the same issues regarding picking meats, rubs, sauces, temps, presentation, etc. In some cases, it's actually more difficult to get good smoke flavor out of pellets...you can't just toss an extra block of wood in the smoker to get a stronger flavor.

If you're against pellets for the reasons you mention, you should also be against people who light their fuel using a propane torch, those who inject, anyone who wraps with foil, stokers, mojobricks, or any other method that's "straying too far from flavor and the actual aesthetics of the meat" as you put it.

For what it's worth, I use both pellets and charcoal in competition. I cooked pork, ribs and chicken over charcoal this past weekend at Boo Bash...my chicken came in 6th and we were 3rd overall. My WSM with charcoal and an iQue is just as easy to use as my pellet smoker. Learn the ins and outs of whatever cooker you have and it becomes easy.

[AZWildcat]

That's kind of a loaded question, but it brings up so much more stuff, not to get off topic. How about temp control units? I use a Stoker for multiple pits, but personally I wouldn't mind if they outlawed them all together and made you monitor the temp manually. In some ways it turns your cooker into and elec smoker. So why not allow elec or propane units? Allow none or allow some, but most comps want to walk the line. Should they outlaw pellet poopers all together too? Maybe someone will chime in with the reasoning behind the "rules".

[AzScott]

As much as I can appreciate the results from pellet smokers is anyone else against their use in competition? BBQ is a true American art form and the pellet smoking seems like baking to me more than 'BBQ'. It is harder to compete using traditional methods but...I will continue to do so. On that note...this team feels like greens are a completely ridiculous component to these contests. We feel like we are straying too far from flavor and the actual aesthetics of the meat. I have a feeling we are alone but is anyone else feeling this way?

American style BBQ is unique to the US and that style started over pits, not what any of us are cooking on today.  I hate to break it to you but the cookers that just about everyone is using is an oven with the heat being provided by wood, charcoal or pellets.  All smokers  (WSM,'s, Spicewine, Backwoods, FEC's, Green Mountain, Lang's, Jambo's, Brinkmans, misc. verticals, offsets, etc.) are ovens powered by a wood product and the only difference is how much attention they require to maintain a fairly steady temperature.  After cooking on UDS's and a couple of Egg we decided to buy an FEC 100.  I've rubbed it, patted it, and talked to it but at no time did a BBQ genie come out and automatically bestow us with great BBQ.  I wish it did but every piece of meat that comes out of it is 100% dependent on us to have the taste and tenderness we are trying to turn in.  

Greens on the other hand do several things.  They provide the ability to place the meat how you want it without it sliding around.  They provide a nice visual border to the meat and the parsley is also good for cleansing ones palette.  It may also be of some satisfaction that in KCBS the appearance is 1/2 the tenderness score and 1/4 the taste score.  If you haven't taken Harry Soo's box making class that he provides for free on Saturday mornings at competitions DO IT!  It will change the agonizing process into one that is simple and relatively quick.  You are also more than welcome to stop by and see us, Little Miss BBQ, at the December event at Bass Pro Shops Friday evening and we can show you how to do your boxes quickly.

  

[AzScott]

Dan, as far as propane and electricity I think it's due to tradition and safety.  Propane possibly could pool in the cooking chamber and ignite causing possible damage or injuries.  I'm pretty sure health and fire departments would have issues if there were home made propane smokers amongst a crowded contest with no emergency off switch.  I think electricity is banned due to the heating source being electric and being in no way remotely close to a traditional fuel source.  I say let them all play as long as there aren't any homemade propane smokers.

[RudedoggAZ]

It doesn't matter to me... I can mess something up on a stick burner just the same way I can on a pellet cooker.  I don't see it changing just like the conversation of msg in rubs.

[Mark]

Scott, is Harry Soo's box-making process about making a perfect bed of parsley? They do look nice. On the down side they completely coat the underside of the meat being presented, especially chicken thighs. Judges must peel off the dozens of parsley florets, piece-by-piece, wiping off their sticky fingers and repeating the process six times. I think we need finger bowls! I don't, but I gotta wonder how many judges chow down on the attached parsley and consider it part of the flavor profile?

But parsley does indeed make for a beautiful presentation. In the past few years, boxes have gone from 90% green leaf lettuce to 90% parsley. Maybe we in the BCS should provide 9"x9" squares of Astroturf that they could be run through the dishwasher after. It would literally level the playing field.

[rnrbbq]

Interesting responses. Maybe I am bitter since I spent all Friday night screwing with my smokers and fighting some weird issues. Don't get me wrong, I am jealous of the pellet smokers ease of operation and I would love to get some sleep at competitions. I can't really figure out how the pellet smokers are legal but I also can't figure out how they break the rules. I have an electric smoker at home that I use sometimes [cus' it's easy] and to me the pellet smokers seem to work pretty much the same way.

Thanks for the responses, I am not looking to down anyone for using them. If it's legal...have at it! Maybe someday I will give up on my love of old schooling it and get smart [and sleep] and go the pellet route.

I am still against the greens They also serve to hide last minute basting liquids. It takes over 12 hours to smoke the brisket and then some bed of lettuce comes into play?!?!  It may be easy to make these boxes but I think that is another reason to get rid of the greens. It has nothing to do with BBQ. I like my BBQ on butcher paper

[BrianL]

Ask those of us who have used one of the Yoder pellet smokers how fun they are to run and find out how much of a nightmare they can be. I heard that at least one of them caught fire or something out there

Oh...and the FEC100 I ran at Safford was all over the place and spiking up to over 300 at times...good fun

[AzScott]

Mark, Harry's method of box making uses romaine on the bottom of the box with parsley around the edges so there is NO parsley stuck to the bottom of the meat.  It's a cool method and I know quite a few teams use it.  The Pickled Pig method uses a sliced disk of green leaf with parsley stuck between the leaves.  It's a major time consuming pain but it will create a "putting green" of parsley.  There's also another method with all parsley that is built up on the bottom.  I've never tried that one and I doubt I ever will.

Travis, what are you cooking on?  Sometimes when the temperature dips like it can at night something like a wool blanket or insulation can really help keep the temps more stable.  I know quite a few teams do that with uninsulated smokers and it helps them quite a bit.  I'm assuming you are using a stick burner and I know several teams find things like Guru's allow them to get some longer cat naps.  At the next comp find someone that uses a similar smoker and compare notes with them.  I almost guarantee you will get some help with some of the weird things you experienced.  Competitions are strange things and things rarely go as perfectly as they do at home.

I'm with you on the butcher paper.  There is nothing I love more than eating BBQ off of it.  By the way, nice website!  Looks like you have done quite a bit in the music industry.  

[rnrbbq]

Scott, I am using steel offset smokers. Not super thick but not thin like the Home Depot specials. I forgot my blankets which is where my troubles started. I also over packed the cooking chambers so I could do more samples. I am new to the competitions here in AZ and the other one I did I had wished I had more samples to give out. Here, I had plenty of meat and not many people walking around. I sold my soul for sample tickets and paid the price. Lesson learned.

I need to find a good thread on these offsets. Smoking during the day here in AZ rarely is a challenge but overnight can get rough. I have looked at Gurus, Stokers, and iQues...maybe it's time I bite the bullet and by myself some piece of mind.

I do work in entertainment. Sadly, it is why I am only in AZ 1/2 the year right now.

[LeftCoastQ]

Wow!..Some very good posts here guys,we cook on a big hog cooker and a pellet cooker as well so were really at both ends of the spectrum..like has been said it's really more about the cook than the cooker and being able to adjust to any type.I really enjoy the challenge of a stickburner but the ease of a pellet one is set it and almost forget it..as to the BBQ it is all about a balanced marriage of flavor that we strive to produce over and over again..and after a lot of cooking on both types of cookers I have to admit that while the stickburner puts out a better smoke flavor the pellets produce a more consistent product..

[azkitch]

I'm still thinkin' about Mark's idea with the astroturf!...
I have enjoyed having a little side salad between bites as a judge. I enjoy chomping on the parsley...and I really don't care for judging chicken...doesn't matter how much parsley I have to pick off, I get goopy up to my wrists eating the dunked-in-sauce thighs. None of the other meats coats my hands so badly.
And I miss judging BBQ competitions...

[Crash]

I can't really figure out how the pellet smokers are legal...........

They are legal because the electricity only provides power to the auger or other pellet distribution device...not the heat element.  Most pellet cookers add pellets at a timed rate according to the temp in the cooking chamber.

Sometimes these pellet fed cookers are not all that they are cracked up to be.  Boards can fail (happend to us at 1am in Tempe 2009), pellet distribution device can jam and some have even been known to go out at lower temps. 

IMO, they are not exactly "set-it-and-forget-it".  If you head off to bed and one of the things mentioned above happen, you're in a world of hurt at a comp.

[rnrbbq]

OK, here is what I don't get...do you light a match? Start a chimney? Where does the initial flame come from?