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Smokers, Grills, Pitts & More => BDS & UDS Smokers => Topic started by: azkitch on September 13, 2011, 08:47:14 pm

Title: Re-igniting (HAHA) the age old debate--used drums
Post by: azkitch on September 13, 2011, 08:47:14 pm
Once again, I would like to open for discussion the age old debate about used drums. I was coming home last night, and I saw a black drum on a trailer full of crap. I stopped and asked, the kid at the house made a call, and it was OK to snag the drum. The lid's been cut out, and the inside is unlined and slightly rusty, with the original gold tone showing through. The label, however, is intact, and the drum contained Chevron Anti-Freeze. Between washing it out and burning it out, I can't for the life of me figure how it might be dangerous. Metal is not at all porous, and once I've hosed it and filled it with all the mesquite I can get old of and had a bonfire, I can't justify worry.
Are there any chemists out there who can shed light one way or the other?


So was that a fitting four thousandth post? See, if you guys didn't have enough money for meat and charcoal, and a wife and daughter that didn't like BBQ (Unless someone else cooks it!) y'all could sit here and theorize about smoking and post lots too!

If you had a penny for your thoughts you would have 40 bucks!
:D
Title: Re: Re-igniting (HAHA) the age old debate--used drums
Post by: route66 on September 14, 2011, 12:20:46 am
I have taken a few 10K gallon fuel tanks from service station upgrades to use for our livestock water storage. We climbed in and scrubbed with detergent and borax and even tried burning a few before the wash but could never get rid of the odor. A couple that we stored for a couple years after washing are in use today for our remote water storage and the tests on the water does not show anything bad. Maybe it is in my head but I still get a slight hint of petro when I am close to them.

Back to your tank, I would think you could burn and scrub it clean with some elbow grease but there are a lot of cheap barrels which have only held food grade products available which would be my choice. If you look hard enough some are free if you remove them! I used to get them from Pepsi in Flagstaff and they were happy to get rid of them but now they use plastic. Congrats on your posting milestone, If you had a penny for your thoughts you would have 40 bucks!
Title: Re: Re-igniting (HAHA) the age old debate--used drums
Post by: skou on September 15, 2011, 12:04:03 am
Dave, Sterling and I have been using antifreeze drums for 2 or 3 years now, with NO problems.  He works for a school district, in the transportation departmen, and as such he has access to used drums with antifreeze or oil in them.

We wash them out with Dawn, and do a SERIOUS burn-out.  He's done over 30, and I've got my second one.  No issues, you can't even smell anything.

Oh, antifreeze (both kinds) break down at about 400 degrees F.

steve
Title: Re: Re-igniting (HAHA) the age old debate--used drums
Post by: PAT YOUNG on September 15, 2011, 02:35:09 am
Just my 2 cents- metal is porous!!!!
Title: Re: Re-igniting (HAHA) the age old debate--used drums
Post by: AZWildcat on September 15, 2011, 07:39:52 am
I get my drums brand new at southwest container.    The paint holds up well to smoking temperatures and there is no liner to scrape out or anything to have to burn. Complete with a lid and ring for around 55 dollars, its well worth it if you live in the Phoenix or Tucson area.
Title: Re: Re-igniting (HAHA) the age old debate--used drums
Post by: azkitch on September 15, 2011, 10:37:39 am
and have $55...

I would if I could, but I can't so I won't. Not to mention that DW would have my head!
Title: Re: Re-igniting (HAHA) the age old debate--used drums
Post by: AZWildcat on September 15, 2011, 11:10:34 am
True Dave, and congrats on the 4000th post. YOU THE MAN!
Title: Re: Re-igniting (HAHA) the age old debate--used drums
Post by: Gizzy's Smokin Crew on September 15, 2011, 11:43:53 am
Congrats Dave......4000 POSTS........WOW Thats alot of talking ;D
Title: Re: Re-igniting (HAHA) the age old debate--used drums
Post by: z98dog on September 15, 2011, 07:33:36 pm
Well, Kitch asked for a chemist, here I am. :angel:

Propylene Glycol is the main chemical in most new antifreeze and here is the scoop from Wikipedia (there are no other Academic types around, right?)

HumansThe acute oral toxicity of propylene glycol is very low, and large quantities are required to cause perceptible health damage in humans; propylene glycol is metabolized in the human body into pyruvic acid (a normal part of the glucose-metabolism process, readily converted to energy), acetic acid (handled by ethanol-metabolism), lactic acid (a normal acid generally abundant during digestion),[11] and propionaldehyde.[12][13] Serious toxicity generally occurs only at plasma concentrations over 1 g/L, which requires extremely high intake over a relatively short period of time.[14] It would be nearly impossible to reach toxic levels by consuming foods or supplements, which contain at most 1 g/kg of PG. Cases of propylene glycol poisoning are usually related to either inappropriate intravenous administration or accidental ingestion of large quantities by children

Here is the link if anyone wants to check out the references: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Propylene_glycol

That being said, I would not recommend drinking it.

Old antifreeze was made using a similar compound, ethylene glycol. It can become toxic if you drink enough of it.

ToxicityMain article: ethylene glycol poisoning
Ethylene glycol is moderately toxic with an oral LDLO = 786 mg/kg for humans.[6] The major danger is due to its sweet taste. Because of that, children and animals are more inclined to consume large quantities of it than of other poisons. Upon ingestion, ethylene glycol is oxidized to glycolic acid which is, in turn, oxidized to oxalic acid, which is toxic. It and its toxic byproducts first affect the central nervous system, then the heart, and finally the kidneys. Ingestion of sufficient amounts can be fatal if untreated.[7]

Link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethylene_glycol

I would feel safe eating from a UDS made using a drum that used to hold antifreeze.  I would be a little more concerned about oil, what with all the polycyclic aromatic hydrocarbons (PAH's), but those burn. I am pretty sure the glycols burn too. They are alcohols. (just not the fun kind like ethanol :police:)A good burn or two should do it to the point that anything leaching out of the metal will be in the part per trillion range.

Sterling, got any extra drums? A UDS is in my future plans after I finish up my current project...a mini WSM type smoker using a tabletop grill and an Aluminum tamale pot. Should have that cooking a fattie this weekend. I will try to take pictures.
Title: Re: Re-igniting (HAHA) the age old debate--used drums
Post by: z98dog on September 15, 2011, 07:44:37 pm
I forgot to mention... 8) Check out the chemical composition of smoke and leachates from metal become the least of your worries.  >:D

http://burningissues.org/table2.htm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smoke
Title: Re: Re-igniting (HAHA) the age old debate--used drums
Post by: AZWildcat on September 15, 2011, 09:58:39 pm
Damn Doug...I have no idea what you just wrote. My head is spinning and I need a beer!
Title: Re: Re-igniting (HAHA) the age old debate--used drums
Post by: z98dog on September 15, 2011, 10:26:21 pm
Blame Kitch, he wanted a chemist. ??? I am sitting here with my rum and coke. The good alcohol.
Title: Re: Re-igniting (HAHA) the age old debate--used drums
Post by: skou on September 15, 2011, 10:36:46 pm
I forgot to mention... 8) Check out the chemical composition of smoke and leachates from metal become the least of your worries.  >:D

http://burningissues.org/table2.htm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smoke


OK, I followed the Wikipedia link, and got distracted.  (Ooh, SQUIRREL!!)  Ended up at a link about "Magic Smoke."

THANKS! Doug!! :D

Seriously Doug, PM Sterling here.  He gets drums in all the time, and likes to help other Smokers out.  Goes by the moniker "Skouson" here.  (Our last name, and my handle is close.)

steve
Title: Re: Re-igniting (HAHA) the age old debate--used drums
Post by: skou on September 15, 2011, 10:41:52 pm
Blame Kitch, he wanted a chemist. ??? I am sitting here with my rum and coke. The good alcohol.

Is there a "bad" ethanol?

Didn't think so.

WildCat, I'm drinking your beer.  Well, I was, 3 hours ago.  Now I'm on my #3 (or so!) :D

steve
Title: Re: Re-igniting (HAHA) the age old debate--used drums
Post by: azkitch on September 16, 2011, 08:10:03 am
Great responses, guys. I appreciate it. Now on with the cleaning and burning. But I've got to finger out a lid for the thing...

And Maker's Mark is my current favorite ethanol. I've been told by friend to try Buffalo Trace. I can't find it in smaller sizes yet...
Title: Re: Re-igniting (HAHA) the age old debate--used drums
Post by: skou on September 16, 2011, 11:30:35 am
Dave, Weber kettle lid.

Find a used kettle off of CL.

steve
Title: Re: Re-igniting (HAHA) the age old debate--used drums
Post by: azkitch on September 16, 2011, 02:33:43 pm
Yes, I'm gonna try mine on it, but it doesn't fit my other UDS...I'm anticipating... I'm also going to try my current UDS' lid...
How d'ya adjust the fit on them thangs, anyway!!? My UDS lid doesn't quite fit. I'm not sure if the barrel isn't round any longer, or if the lid is a fraction too small. I was trying to bend the channel of the lid outward, and it seemed to fit a bit better...
Title: Re: Re-igniting (HAHA) the age old debate--used drums
Post by: KidCurry on September 16, 2011, 04:19:00 pm
flip it and see if the weber lid fits the bottom.  mine did, so i cut the bottom open and used the weber lid with the drum upside down. 

 Something must be out of wack on your drum all my lids fit fine, yours should be dentical to mine.
Title: Re: Re-igniting (HAHA) the age old debate--used drums
Post by: skou on September 16, 2011, 06:24:37 pm
I was trying to bend the channel of the lid outward, and it seemed to fit a bit better...


That is what I did.  Yes, it will crack the baked-on finish.  Wear safety glasses!  I just used a crescent wrench all around the lid.

Sterling is cutting up the kettle, cutting a ring off the top 2 or 3 inches, dropping it in the drum, and sticking it in place with some hi-temp silicone sealer.  He's never had a ring move, either.

steve
Title: Re: Re-igniting (HAHA) the age old debate--used drums
Post by: Skouson on September 17, 2011, 04:29:50 pm
Dave,

If you want to go the bottom-rim-of-the-Weber-Kettle route, (which I highly recommend because you don't have to fung up the kettle lid) I've got about 5 extra kettle bottoms just sitting in the shop gathering dust and my wife's wrath.  If you want one, its yours.  You just have to come and get it.

Send me a PM.

Sterling
Title: Re: Re-igniting (HAHA) the age old debate--used drums
Post by: Elwood on September 17, 2011, 07:49:52 pm
I get my drums brand new at southwest container.    The paint holds up well to smoking temperatures and there is no liner to scrape out or anything to have to burn. Complete with a lid and ring for around 55 dollars, its well worth it if you live in the Phoenix or Tucson area.
Where is that place at I want to build a UDS ASAP !
Title: Re: Re-igniting (HAHA) the age old debate--used drums
Post by: AZWildcat on September 17, 2011, 08:41:46 pm
Where is that place at I want to build a UDS ASAP !

Southwest Container
Title: Re: Re-igniting (HAHA) the age old debate--used drums
Post by: FatCharlie on September 18, 2011, 05:50:16 am
Great responses, guys. I appreciate it. Now on with the cleaning and burning. But I've got to finger out a lid for the thing...

And Maker's Mark is my current favorite ethanol. I've been told by friend to try Buffalo Trace. I can't find it in smaller sizes yet...

Buffalo Trace can be found at Total Wine.  One of my favorites.
Title: Re: Re-igniting (HAHA) the age old debate--used drums
Post by: Mark on September 18, 2011, 09:47:11 am
Buffalo Trace is tasty indeed, as is Maker's Mark. I love the selection of bourbons at Total Wine. Before the days of only allowing bottles of liquid holding 3 ounces or less on flights, I used to bring home bottles of bourbon unavailable here, like Fighting Cock, JD green label and Rebel Yell. Same thing with Brazilian cachaca. Now you can get both at Total Wine and Bevmo.
Title: Re: Re-igniting (HAHA) the age old debate--used drums
Post by: Mark on September 20, 2011, 08:18:53 am
Hey, Kitch. Here's the drink for you. (when someone else is buying) ;)

http://news.blogs.cnn.com/2011/09/20/bottle-of-whisky-sells-for-200000/?hpt=hp_c2
Title: Re: Re-igniting (HAHA) the age old debate--used drums
Post by: route66 on September 20, 2011, 12:06:31 pm
Here are some Drums I saw on C/L pretty reasonable.
http://phoenix.craigslist.org/wvl/grd/2606366368.html
Title: Re: Re-igniting (HAHA) the age old debate--used drums
Post by: skou on September 20, 2011, 09:19:28 pm
OK guys, a "barrel" is a unit of measure.  33 gallons.

A typical beer keg, is a 1/2 barrel keg, or 16.5 gallons.

A drum can be a barrel sized drum.  (When we were kids, our father had 2 of them in the garage.  Held 66 gallons of dry wheat, in the 2 of them)

A "drum" is what we have here.  Specifically, 55 gallon drums.

(And yes, before some OLD mechanic says it, a barrel is also one of the throats on a carburetor.  Newer mechanics wouldn't even know what a carb is!) :D

steve
Title: Re: Re-igniting (HAHA) the age old debate--used drums
Post by: route66 on September 21, 2011, 12:11:51 pm
Steve, I stand corrected and better informed, thank you!

A barrel is a hollow cylindrical container, traditionally made of vertical wooden staves and bound by wooden or metal hoops. Barrels often have a convex shape, bulging at the middle. This constant bulge makes it easier to roll a well-built wooden barrel on its side, changing directions with little friction. The barrel became a standard size of measure referring to a set capacity or weight of a given commodity.
 
A beer barrel had originally a capacity of 36 US gallons (140 L)

An ale barrel has capacity of 32 US gallons (120 L).

Basic Wine barrel is 31.5 US gallons (119 L), Bordeaux type 59.4 US gallons (225 L), Cognac type" 79.2 US gallons (300 L).

Oil has not actually been shipped in barrels since the introduction of oil tankers, but the 42-US- gallon size barrel is still used as a unit for measurement, pricing, and in tax and regulatory codes.

Barrel of crude oil or other petroleum product is 42 US gallons (34.9723 imp gal; 158.9873 L).

Barrels for chemicals and food is 55 US gallons (46 imp gal; 208 L).

A Barrel is also an important part of a gun! ???
Title: Re: Re-igniting (HAHA) the age old debate--used drums
Post by: SmokinNPeoria on March 03, 2012, 01:17:54 pm
Could someone post the container company information (address phone number). I tried to locate them by the name listed, however could only find SunWest Container in Phoenix.

I love the site, thanks.
Title: Re: Re-igniting (HAHA) the age old debate--used drums
Post by: AZWildcat on March 03, 2012, 01:32:37 pm
My bad Bill....it is Sunwest not Southwest.
Title: Re: Re-igniting (HAHA) the age old debate--used drums
Post by: SmokinNPeoria on March 03, 2012, 06:34:35 pm
Thanks Dan
Title: Re: Re-igniting (HAHA) the age old debate--used drums
Post by: Zor on April 10, 2012, 01:10:33 pm
I've got a brisket on a UDS built from one of Sterling's old antifreeze drums. I cleaned it with ammonia and scalding water before doing an unseasoned burn, really hot too, it pegged my thermometers and then a burn with the smoker seasoned with lard rendered from pig fat. I work with all kinds of chemicals and don't have any fear of glycol leaching from the steal or anything else. Watch out for old ladies behind the wheels of Fords though. I almost got taken out last week when a woman drove her car up to the counter of a locksmith who I happened to be paying at the time of her arrival. By the way, it wasn't a drive through kind of business before she go there.

Zor