Re-igniting (HAHA) the age old debate--used drums
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Author Topic: Re-igniting (HAHA) the age old debate--used drums  (Read 3499 times)
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azkitch
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« on: September 13, 2011, 08:47:14 pm »

Once again, I would like to open for discussion the age old debate about used drums. I was coming home last night, and I saw a black drum on a trailer full of crap. I stopped and asked, the kid at the house made a call, and it was OK to snag the drum. The lid's been cut out, and the inside is unlined and slightly rusty, with the original gold tone showing through. The label, however, is intact, and the drum contained Chevron Anti-Freeze. Between washing it out and burning it out, I can't for the life of me figure how it might be dangerous. Metal is not at all porous, and once I've hosed it and filled it with all the mesquite I can get old of and had a bonfire, I can't justify worry.
Are there any chemists out there who can shed light one way or the other?


So was that a fitting four thousandth post? See, if you guys didn't have enough money for meat and charcoal, and a wife and daughter that didn't like BBQ (Unless someone else cooks it!) y'all could sit here and theorize about smoking and post lots too!

If you had a penny for your thoughts you would have 40 bucks!
Cheesy
« Last Edit: September 15, 2011, 05:36:48 pm by azkitch »




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route66
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« Reply #1 on: September 14, 2011, 12:20:46 am »

I have taken a few 10K gallon fuel tanks from service station upgrades to use for our livestock water storage. We climbed in and scrubbed with detergent and borax and even tried burning a few before the wash but could never get rid of the odor. A couple that we stored for a couple years after washing are in use today for our remote water storage and the tests on the water does not show anything bad. Maybe it is in my head but I still get a slight hint of petro when I am close to them.

Back to your tank, I would think you could burn and scrub it clean with some elbow grease but there are a lot of cheap barrels which have only held food grade products available which would be my choice. If you look hard enough some are free if you remove them! I used to get them from Pepsi in Flagstaff and they were happy to get rid of them but now they use plastic. Congrats on your posting milestone, If you had a penny for your thoughts you would have 40 bucks!
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skou
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« Reply #2 on: September 15, 2011, 12:04:03 am »

Dave, Sterling and I have been using antifreeze drums for 2 or 3 years now, with NO problems.  He works for a school district, in the transportation departmen, and as such he has access to used drums with antifreeze or oil in them.

We wash them out with Dawn, and do a SERIOUS burn-out.  He's done over 30, and I've got my second one.  No issues, you can't even smell anything.

Oh, antifreeze (both kinds) break down at about 400 degrees F.

steve
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« Reply #3 on: September 15, 2011, 02:35:09 am »

Just my 2 cents- metal is porous!!!!
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AZWildcat
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« Reply #4 on: September 15, 2011, 07:39:52 am »

I get my drums brand new at southwest container.    The paint holds up well to smoking temperatures and there is no liner to scrape out or anything to have to burn. Complete with a lid and ring for around 55 dollars, its well worth it if you live in the Phoenix or Tucson area.
« Last Edit: September 15, 2011, 11:03:53 am by AZWildcat »
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azkitch
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« Reply #5 on: September 15, 2011, 10:37:39 am »

and have $55...

I would if I could, but I can't so I won't. Not to mention that DW would have my head!
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AZWildcat
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« Reply #6 on: September 15, 2011, 11:10:34 am »

True Dave, and congrats on the 4000th post. YOU THE MAN!
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« Reply #7 on: September 15, 2011, 11:43:53 am »

Congrats Dave......4000 POSTS........WOW Thats alot of talking Grin
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« Reply #8 on: September 15, 2011, 07:33:36 pm »

Well, Kitch asked for a chemist, here I am. angel

Propylene Glycol is the main chemical in most new antifreeze and here is the scoop from Wikipedia (there are no other Academic types around, right?)

HumansThe acute oral toxicity of propylene glycol is very low, and large quantities are required to cause perceptible health damage in humans; propylene glycol is metabolized in the human body into pyruvic acid (a normal part of the glucose-metabolism process, readily converted to energy), acetic acid (handled by ethanol-metabolism), lactic acid (a normal acid generally abundant during digestion),[11] and propionaldehyde.[12][13] Serious toxicity generally occurs only at plasma concentrations over 1 g/L, which requires extremely high intake over a relatively short period of time.[14] It would be nearly impossible to reach toxic levels by consuming foods or supplements, which contain at most 1 g/kg of PG. Cases of propylene glycol poisoning are usually related to either inappropriate intravenous administration or accidental ingestion of large quantities by children

Here is the link if anyone wants to check out the references: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Propylene_glycol

That being said, I would not recommend drinking it.

Old antifreeze was made using a similar compound, ethylene glycol. It can become toxic if you drink enough of it.

ToxicityMain article: ethylene glycol poisoning
Ethylene glycol is moderately toxic with an oral LDLO = 786 mg/kg for humans.[6] The major danger is due to its sweet taste. Because of that, children and animals are more inclined to consume large quantities of it than of other poisons. Upon ingestion, ethylene glycol is oxidized to glycolic acid which is, in turn, oxidized to oxalic acid, which is toxic. It and its toxic byproducts first affect the central nervous system, then the heart, and finally the kidneys. Ingestion of sufficient amounts can be fatal if untreated.[7]

Link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethylene_glycol

I would feel safe eating from a UDS made using a drum that used to hold antifreeze.  I would be a little more concerned about oil, what with all the polycyclic aromatic hydrocarbons (PAH's), but those burn. I am pretty sure the glycols burn too. They are alcohols. (just not the fun kind like ethanol police)A good burn or two should do it to the point that anything leaching out of the metal will be in the part per trillion range.

Sterling, got any extra drums? A UDS is in my future plans after I finish up my current project...a mini WSM type smoker using a tabletop grill and an Aluminum tamale pot. Should have that cooking a fattie this weekend. I will try to take pictures.
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« Reply #9 on: September 15, 2011, 07:44:37 pm »

I forgot to mention... Cool Check out the chemical composition of smoke and leachates from metal become the least of your worries.  Evil

http://burningissues.org/table2.htm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smoke
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AZWildcat
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« Reply #10 on: September 15, 2011, 09:58:39 pm »

Damn Doug...I have no idea what you just wrote. My head is spinning and I need a beer!
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« Reply #11 on: September 15, 2011, 10:26:21 pm »

Blame Kitch, he wanted a chemist. Huh I am sitting here with my rum and coke. The good alcohol.
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« Reply #12 on: September 15, 2011, 10:36:46 pm »

I forgot to mention... Cool Check out the chemical composition of smoke and leachates from metal become the least of your worries.  Evil

http://burningissues.org/table2.htm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smoke


OK, I followed the Wikipedia link, and got distracted.  (Ooh, SQUIRREL!!)  Ended up at a link about "Magic Smoke."

THANKS! Doug!! Cheesy

Seriously Doug, PM Sterling here.  He gets drums in all the time, and likes to help other Smokers out.  Goes by the moniker "Skouson" here.  (Our last name, and my handle is close.)

steve
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Currently cooking with a newly built UDS,(thanks to Skouson, my brother) which is my current best smoker.  I've also got a Weber Performer, also from Sterling.  My brothers think I'm CRAZY.  (Strangely, they're right.)
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« Reply #13 on: September 15, 2011, 10:41:52 pm »

Blame Kitch, he wanted a chemist. Huh I am sitting here with my rum and coke. The good alcohol.

Is there a "bad" ethanol?

Didn't think so.

WildCat, I'm drinking your beer.  Well, I was, 3 hours ago.  Now I'm on my #3 (or so!) Cheesy

steve
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Currently cooking with a newly built UDS,(thanks to Skouson, my brother) which is my current best smoker.  I've also got a Weber Performer, also from Sterling.  My brothers think I'm CRAZY.  (Strangely, they're right.)
azkitch
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David Kitchener
« Reply #14 on: September 16, 2011, 08:10:03 am »

Great responses, guys. I appreciate it. Now on with the cleaning and burning. But I've got to finger out a lid for the thing...

And Maker's Mark is my current favorite ethanol. I've been told by friend to try Buffalo Trace. I can't find it in smaller sizes yet...
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CBJ # 53779
For cooking, lower and slower. For spices, mo' hotter, mo' better. Habaneros rule!
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